Southwest Development Committee Meeting

SWDC Red Line Subcommittee Meeting

On Wednesday 14 December 2005 a group of concerned citizens and legislators met with Transportation Secretary Robert Flanagan and MTA officials, including MTA Administrator Lisa Dickekrson. A report of this meeting will be presented as soon as I can type up my notes.

My notes from this meeting this weekend are below the photographs. If you have corrections, please e-mail them to me at the e-mail address on the home page. These notes represent what I heard and understood and are not necessarily the position or views of those mentioned herein.

I'm reporting what I heard and the way that I heard them. To me the important thing is that citizens like you and me are able to come together and meet face-to-face with our elected and governmental officials and iron out issues. The people of Baltimore should be proud of the fine job that their elected officials are doing.

The photographs were taken with my new Canon Rebel 6.1-megapixel digital single lens reflex camera. I did not use flash intentionally. Please enjoy the photographs.

Special thank you to Ms. Angela Bethea-Spearman for all the corrections she sent me.

Ed Cohen and Nate Payer of TRAC.		Lorenzo of MTA
		Al Foxx, director, Baltimore City Department of Transportation
Senator Lisa Gladden
	Lisa Dickerson, Administrator, MTA
Ed Cohen, President, TRAC		Ted Rosenberg
	Donna Mont	Delegate Samuel Rosenberg (in middle)
	Steve Whisler, Delagate Keith Haynes, Michael Deets	Secretary Robert Flanigan and Lisa Dickerson
	Don Sherrod
	Warren Smith




	Michael Deets and Angela (moderator)

Southwest Development Committee
Network Meeting

Wednesday 14 December 2005

Agenda

Welcome
Introduction
Overview
Issues
Community Funding
Baltimore County
Cost Analysis
All Modes Studied
Connectivity
Businesses
Recap
Follow-up

Before Meeting

Comment: Sheila Dixon is adamant about minority receiving quality contracts.

Meeting

Angela Betha-Spearman, president of the Uplands Community Association and chairperson, Southwest Development Committee, called the meeting to order at 18:31. We had a member of the Catonsville Times present.

Senator Verna Jones, who co-chaired and helps to organize the meetings with Secreta4ry Flanagan,asked if the MTA or MDOT is prepared to make a presentation. Lorenzo said that they can answer some of the questions. MDOT is not here.

Any documents relating to budget or plans are available at 6 Saint Paul Street. Some of the documents are confidential. Heavy rail is not a part of the project but tunneling is a part of the project. They are giving us an update on tunneling which is a part of the proposal. Heavy rail is not a part of the modes under consideration. BRT, light rail, enhanced bus, and no build are the alternatives. It would be another year before the modes are determined.

Col. Al Foxx, director of Baltimore City's Department of Transportation, asked what is the difference between enhanced bus and bus rapid transit. Enhanced bus is taking the system as it exists and making improvements. Enhanced bus does not include dedicated lanes and might or might not include signal priority. This is minimum capital investment.

Senator Lisa Gladden asked why heavy rail is not on the table. She also said that tunnelling is not associated with heavy rail.

Lorenzo Brown, of the MTA, said that tunneling will be where it is prohibited to do something on th surface. One reason heavy rail is not on the table is cost. It needs to be protected because of the third rail. They looked at it early before going to the Federal Register and the delegation signed off on it.

Senator Jones asked which delegates. She and Senator Gladden were members of the delegation and they did not sign off on it. Two others also did not sign off on it.

Lorenzo: The reason that heavy rail is not being considered is that when you look across the country, heavy rail is not among those new projects. It has to be cost effective to receive federal dollars. Heavy rail are extension of systems that already exist as heavy rail.

Angela: We are going to start with the issues and narrow them. The first issue is a true community advisory board. CPHA is not a true community advisory board.

Community Funding, Warren Smith , concerned citizen from the Wsthills Community Association: The community advisory board is mandated by FTA. It mandates and allows a discretionary fund. This is not a community working group. Fund is available and should be used and it requires true community involvement.

Lorenzo: The area thing went to our areas where they have designated working groups. They go out and speak to community groups as requested. They are still in the process of forming groups. They identified neighborhood associations in five areas. They are developing a community advisory board. He is not aware of any FTA mandates for community funding. There will be some outreach to the public. Their policy has not been determined.

Lisa Dickerson, Administrator of the MTA, has talked to FTA but she has not heard from them. The commitment is to keep the community involved. She does not know if there is funding available. If they are available, she wants discussion with them but she has not heard back from them.

They met in June and she spoke to them in August. Senator Jones wants them to go back to them before the end of the year. She suggested Lisa Dickerson asks Congressman Cummings for help.

Warren Smith said that community funding has been on the table and it is in the report from Morgan University in 2001. The project that CPHA took members to are not government owned. They are privately owned. MTA has not heard us yet. We have a voice in this city. This is our home and ... we have not been respected yet. “I request a senatorial hearing.” We never received any answers as a community.

Angela: We are building a city-wide coalition to go from the beginning of the red line to the end and then jump over to the green line.

Baltimore County, Steve Whisler, president of the Westview Park Improvement & Civic Association, a Baltimore County representative: Westview Park is in West Baltimore County. They are towards the end point of the proposed red line. They normally have 100-150 people at the community meetings. They appreciate the support that MTA gives them. Steve has spoken personally with the governor's staff and the MTA staff. One of the biggest concerns is eminent domain and they want to see it as minimum as possible.

Another issue is support and requirements for area businesses. Any legislation that goes forward needs to be given to the businesses. Jobs are very important to them.

One concern is using existing traffic lanes for rail service.

They want the red line to go in and to be something that people using existing cars would use to get them off their streets. They want to see a major assess point along Interstate 70. They want to keep traffic away from local communities. Is there any kind of prediction of ridership or decrease of cars on the streets? Are there any statistics on the reduction of crime? We want to see something built that we can be proud of.

Angela: I wish Baltimore City can see the thing as Baltimore County sees it.

Cost, Ed Cohen: The cost that Lorenzo mentions is for tunneling the entire length of the line. Nobody has talked about tunneling the entire line. Ridership density is something that the FTA looks at. None of these costs have been given to us. Not all the cost values have been included.

The projected alignments do not appear to be competitive. It is insufficient to be competitive and we are in the bottom third of the process.

Secretary Robert Flanigan, Department of Transportation, State of Maryland, said that he has not heard this.

Heavy rail were excluded before the studies have been done. This is news to Secretary Flanigan. It is information that Ed Cohen had received by word of mouth. Secretary Flanagan is a dues paying member of TRAC.

Twenty-two thousand a day on the Light Rail is an estimate of ridership. This is against 60,000 for buses. Secretary Flanigan said that this is a very preliminary number. Ed said that this is a first guestimate. We do not have any figures to justify the exclusion of heavy rail as a mode. Secretary Flanigan will try to respond to this.

For total cost we do not have to respond to the total in one segment. On the Mark Shriner Show Secretary Flanigan said that it would take too long to build this way. We don't know if heavy rail would quality or not.

How are these costs being applied and what are the numbers nad how are these decisions be introduced?

All Modes Studied, Ted Rosenberg: All modes should be covered. Mr. Cohen covered most of his material.

Connectivity, Nate Payer: This is a very expensive project and we need to look at al the alternatives. Many alternatives have been eliminated that would include connectivity. We have a huge gap in our plan. We are looking at another line that does not connect with either train station.

Secretary Flanigan said that the legislature wants us to do the Red Line. If the legislature tells him that they want a different red line, ... He also said that the map does not go to Camden Yards.

Heavy rail costs too much but we do not know how much it costs.

Ed Cohen: As of today there has been no public hearing on the Red Line. The Red Line must start at Social Security and go through the Harbor. Secretary Flanigan said that they are working off a transit plan presented to them by a group that he and Ed referred to. The plan did not have details but a good approximation of where they want it to go. The legislation would have to make it clear if they wan a substantial change.

When he came in, he relied on Henry Kay. There is cost right now to any changes. It costs $2 or $3 million to study the heavy rail and it would delay te project and there are other consequences.

Businesses: The concern for the businesses is that they are not many training buses on the Red Line. Another concern is what type of bus will be in character with the Red Line. It is designed to carry people from the furthest side of the East side to Social Security and there are not many places where they stop. The people from whom she heard feel that it is very inconvenient to ride the buses. Some of th businesses are losing some of their employees because of the changes on the bus. Some people can no longer get to places where they like to stop. The Red Line is only for those going from East Baltimore to Social Security. How do you benefit the community?

Donna Mont, Downtown Business Merchant's representative: She represents 400 businesses downtown o the west side. They went through subway and Light Rail construction. They want to be a part of this from the planning stage through the construction. Everything that they need to do needs to be put in writing. They want to remain. They are against any type of surface construction. They can't afford to have parking taken away and they need to have deliveries made to them. They are concerned about construction and damages to buildings. They also want to see a facilitator for any of the funding. They want the promises in writing. The impact studies are very important. We want to come up with a system that works. I would love for the system to bring more people to my business, but I want my business to be there when it is done.

When you want to talk about revenue, you have to bring the people in to trade the dollars.

Secretary Flanigan wants contact information for the two women who spoke for businesses [This information was gathered after the meeting].

Steve Whisler said that it takes four or five months minimum to pay the property tax. They need low interest loans He wants the cradle to grave support before, during, and after the construction.

Senator Verna Jones sits on the Transportation Committee. The region delegation was involved in getting money for the study but the specifics were not ironed out. During this legislation session there is language being put forward to make sure a more comprehensive study is done. There is a bill drafted to address some of these needs. Senator Gladding handed Angela a Memorandum of Understanding which covered many of the issues addressed. We are not being heard.

Senator Jones said that establishing a set of principles would be helpful.

Delegate Samuel Rosenberg: Another alternative is to ut something into the budget bill. This cannot be vetoed by the governor.

Angela asked if there is any way to put a freeze on the bonds of the Garvey bill.

Delegate Keith Hanes, 44 th District, said; 'Light Rail and Rapid Bus–we had them before and they don't work. What gets us to where we need to be is heavy rail. We keep hearing that heavy rail is too expensive.' To say that it is too costly without the number to justify it does not get us to where we need to be. One option might be to reduce the ten-mile line to get down the cost. To get Baltimore to a true system we really have to have heavy rail.

Secretary Flanigan: We want to have a balanced transportation program that benefits everybody in the State. I want it to be win-win. Most of the money for the ICC is money that could not be available for transit funds. The Garvey money is available only for highway. There are also tolls that will become bonds to pay for the ICC. There is a potential conflict with other transit lines in the Washington DC area. There is the purple line and there is the Red Line and another line in Montgomery County. It is unusual for a State to take on three projects. The Red Line started later than the other two lines. The purple line has been ten to 12 years. The Red Line is only three years old. The other two are ten plus years old.

Angela: If there is a legislation that will put a freeze on the Garvey bond, we want it. We want a true advisory committee made up but not by CPHA. Is there any way to put a freeze on everything for the Red Line until there is a public hearing in Baltimore City?

Senator Jones said Delegate Salima Silber Marriott and Senator McFadden are looking at convening a hearing. Freezing the funding would involve legislative action. The hearing will be taking place.

Senator Gladden said that this is State and Federal money and we have to have all of our funding together for the feds.

A gentleman said that we cannot get information from the MTA. When we ask for information about the Red Line, they give us a book on Prince George's County. There is no Freedom of Information There is no open communication. A lot of money is being spent in that community advisory board and we are not getting any.

Senator Jones said that there was a list of questions and MDOT has not answered them.

Lorenzo said a list of material was sent to SWDC. Some of the information was not available because they are not at that point of the study.

Don Sherrod, President, Rognel Heights Community Association, asked about four different phases of the study, if the appropriation have been ended. Lorenzo said that it was provided to SWDC. We made a specific request about minority participation and he received a letter saying that they don't have that. He received a half a letter of all the things that MTA does not have. There was nothing about how minority participation was met.

Secretary Flanigan said that it is not clear what the community wants. They may be asking for information that MTA does not have. The Addison Road document was sent as an example. There is no document otherwise. He suggested that a staff person from the legislation and one of his staff people sit down with the community to answer the questions, question-by-question.

SWDC has a Red Line information subcommittee. Tahere would be a representative from MTA and each of the legislature's office. Senator Jones will have somebody from her staff and SWDC and the legislature to work together.

Congressman Cummings sits on the Transportation Committee in the United States House of Representative. Lisa Dickerson will also share with Senator Jones what she gets back.

Mr. Sherrod said that we can start the advisory board without funding. There is a transit project with State Center. We are looking for a community advisory component that is a part of his process.

Secretary Flanigan will pull together a community collaborative process and get back to us. This will be an integral component of the process.

Secretary Flanigan said that the Secretary of Transportation and the MTA Administrator have to make the final decision.

Senator Jones said that their needs to be accountability. She also said that the MTA hearing will probably be in the early part of the session in Baltimore City. A few people had talked with Senator McFadden. Representative Rosenberg said that it is not politically wise to take something from somebody else. You need their vote to do what you want to do. (This is in reference to a previous request to freeze the Garvey bond funds. After the meeting a few people expressed among themselves that this idea was a unwelcome surprise.) It is time to use the outsiders who want to come in and help you instead of the insiders from outside.

Somebody said that no outsider can speak for our community. “I want to see your plans in the future. I reviewed your maps. St. Agnes Hospital is investing $250,000 in their hospital.

Ed Cohen said that we have to get it right. Getting all of the Red Line built right is far more important than have it built right now.

The meeting adjourned around 20:45.